Lochac alternative Crown selection discussion

Quote from: Gwen verch David on Apr 27, 2024, 08:38 AMWe already trust the combatants in Crown Tourneys to choose a worthy consort - and we do know that sometimes a person who wishes to reign will seek out a combatant to be their champion, as in the case of katherine and Ratbot.

I feel you're mis-characterising katherine and my relationship somewhat there.
While we formalised things with the 'bond of man rent' contract and enjoyed playing up that contractual aspect of our partnership, she didn't seek me out, it was a far more serendipitous set of circumstance that had us team up due to a throw away comment I made to her after my previous consort had to pull out of a crown attempt due to an attack of life. We both shared the view that we needed a Crown from the Crescent Isles and thought then, and still do now, that she was an excellent choice as the first Kiwi Queen.

Anyway ...

I don't see any real reason to impose any more limitations on potential champions than we would on any other entrant.
We don't expect anyone currently to explain their reasons for fighting for their consort, or to limit how many different consorts they fight for in subsequent Crowns or how often they can enter other than no entering your own crown tourney

However if they win they would be part of a successful entry to Crown so it makes sense that on winning they would/should be subject to the same limitations as other crown winners, so no entering the next crown.

I'm not sure how I feel about requiring the champion to attend all three of the mandatory events the sovereign and consort have to, but it seems reasonable to require them to attend the step-up coronation at least. I guess requiring them to attend all the mandatory events would damper the enthusiasm for entering too many times if they were successful, but seems a little harsh.

I think the crownmaker argument is a little bit of a strawman.

I preface the following comments with:

1. I am in favour of alternative crown options
2. I am in favour of exploring non-combat options

One thing to keep in mind is that anything with physical prowess may be disadvantaged by long gaps between reigns. E.g. the physical conditioning and skill needed to win may be harder to maintain with 2.5+ years between tournaments. I hope that whatever solutions we explore keeps this in mind

I agree with consideration of not having a rotation that limits say heavy to only the first sixth months of the year forever.

Silfren asked elsewhere:
"What is the Crown for?  Are they mostly about decision making or mostly about contributing to the feel of the place?"

I'm happy to answer that.

1. The "secret art of ruling" is to enable folks to do stuff they'd already love to do. You're giving them excuses to take their art or science to the Next Level. "King Blah said..." can really inspire some amazing new creative endeavours from artisans in the SCA.

2. Focus of the event: the Royal Presence is a real thing. Crowns really must sit at high table during the feast, or the whole event suffers. You provide the energy. If the Queen is sneering, everyone's on edge. If the King is channeling Bacchus (in a good way), the party can continue on well past dawn.

3. Plus obviously; rewarding very deserving gentles. And yes, we could have Peerages bestowed by Barons/esses, sure, but I think it feels more special to have visiting Royals remind us we're all part of something much bigger.

I believe the goal with using eligibility criteria, is to reduce possible damage to the Kingdom.
For example, our existing rule that entrants have current valid passports ensures the Crown are able to grace all corners of their Kingdom with a visit.

Another example: in the kingdom of Drachenwald, entrants must have attended a minimum number of events inside the Kingdom within the past 12 months — to ensure an understanding of the Kingdom's current culture. This criteria was brought in, after a succession of foreign Crowns from other SCA Kingdoms exerted their attitude of "well that's not how things are done back home" and thereby stomping all over the traditions of the Kingdom they're ruling over.

Thankfully, Lochac doesn't suffer this problem — but I think it illustrates how useful restrictive eligibility criteria can be when well applied.

Quote from: ffride wlffsdotter on Mar 24, 2024, 06:47 PM*Could you imagine letting some total A&S nerd like me loose, with no interest in Combat or Service? It'd be a right royal disaster!

First, I ask if you want the job? Then I ask if you are aware of the job description and requirements, and if you answer yes then I support you to succeed. The crown sits on one head, but the crown would be a lonely head without the support crew who are there to smooth the way and assist in so many small ways. You as an A & S nerd would bring such joy to the rest of us A & S nerds, we might well flock around you in an enormous support base, cheering you on and supporting you in all ways imaginable to be the best nerd crown ever.

Watching heavy combat is not one of my interests, though I may occasionally do so and, may occasionally, find it interesting. Competing at heavy combat or rapier combat holds none of my interest. It would be a very strange world where being a consort touched my interest even tangentially. Archery is my main interest, but also there are many of the A & S branches I find interesting and challenging. So for these reasons only do I find less favour with heavy combat remaining as the only source for crown. Thus do I support widening the interest base for those of us who feel as I do. No dishonour to anyone is implied in my view and my gut feeling is that widening the choice, allows a path for more people.

Holding a cumulative score over multiple events could work to weed out stunt doubles, as such a double would have to book for a full event where at some point they would be exposed to the rule set given out at the start of each round. Are we considering 5 tournaments over a 5 day event? What about over several separate events? Either could work.

This is workable with surmountable challenges to implementation, I favour rotation through the choices rather than choices are chosen by the incumbent, there are some niches less likely to be chosen and rotation ensures they will come around again in time, giving hope to the niche practitioners amongst us.

A lottery is my least favoured choice. No skill is tested, no victory challenge exists. Such a lack brings a lacking to the role and I would not compete, for I see no value nor challenge in a lottery.

 I agree with this proposal as the fairest. I also think it is reasonable to consider whether entrants have a full picture of the obligations and gravitas of being crown. I don't think this is in any way a barrier though as part of this could be solved by having a previous crown as a mentor to new entrants and potentials to address this in their submissions. Technically, right now someone of exceptional athleticism could win crown after little experience in the SCA so concerns in this space can be dealt with thoughtfully as part of a bigger change.